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	<title>Comments on: The agile value stream mapping oxymoron</title>
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		<title>By: Doug Shimp</title>
		<link>http://www.cyment.com/blog/2009/09/the-agile-value-stream-mapping-oxymoron/comment-page-1/#comment-100</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Shimp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 May 2011 13:51:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cyment.com/blog/?p=46#comment-100</guid>
		<description>I have done this in the past and like it. However, I would not apply it to a software team alone. 

If you use this do it visually on the wall or table, draw lines, connect, spark dialog, understand sales from start to finish etc. Simply unfold a conversation. It is like an Innovation Game. Another solid tool for causing interactive dialog about the end to end flow of value. 

The &#039;rat trap&#039; to avoid is that this technique can encourage predictive mechanisms of thinking.  (oppressive to human creativity)

It can be useful, when it starts to feel awkward then you are taking it too far in detail. 
- don&#039;t make a belief out of the model
- don&#039;t force data to fit your models
- remember it is just a model not truth
- most important is the unfolding dialog

Play with it, Dialog about insights, Learn, then try something else

:) Doug</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have done this in the past and like it. However, I would not apply it to a software team alone. </p>
<p>If you use this do it visually on the wall or table, draw lines, connect, spark dialog, understand sales from start to finish etc. Simply unfold a conversation. It is like an Innovation Game. Another solid tool for causing interactive dialog about the end to end flow of value. </p>
<p>The &#8216;rat trap&#8217; to avoid is that this technique can encourage predictive mechanisms of thinking.  (oppressive to human creativity)</p>
<p>It can be useful, when it starts to feel awkward then you are taking it too far in detail.<br />
- don&#8217;t make a belief out of the model<br />
- don&#8217;t force data to fit your models<br />
- remember it is just a model not truth<br />
- most important is the unfolding dialog</p>
<p>Play with it, Dialog about insights, Learn, then try something else</p>
<p> <img src='http://www.cyment.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Doug</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Cyment</title>
		<link>http://www.cyment.com/blog/2009/09/the-agile-value-stream-mapping-oxymoron/comment-page-1/#comment-93</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Cyment</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Nov 2010 00:07:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cyment.com/blog/?p=46#comment-93</guid>
		<description>Indeed, Juan. It is a tool, but one that I&#039;d consider only for enterprise-wide process analysis as you say, but not for the software development cycle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed, Juan. It is a tool, but one that I&#8217;d consider only for enterprise-wide process analysis as you say, but not for the software development cycle.</p>
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		<title>By: Juan Gabardini</title>
		<link>http://www.cyment.com/blog/2009/09/the-agile-value-stream-mapping-oxymoron/comment-page-1/#comment-92</link>
		<dc:creator>Juan Gabardini</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2010 11:02:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cyment.com/blog/?p=46#comment-92</guid>
		<description>Hi Alan
Rather &quot;Analyze your current value generation stream&quot; than &quot;Analyze your current software development process&quot;
Many times software is just a part of the whole business: Having tried VSM in different contexts I found that software development is usually less that 1/3 of the whole time.
It&#039;s a tool, just give it a try.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Alan<br />
Rather &#8220;Analyze your current value generation stream&#8221; than &#8220;Analyze your current software development process&#8221;<br />
Many times software is just a part of the whole business: Having tried VSM in different contexts I found that software development is usually less that 1/3 of the whole time.<br />
It&#8217;s a tool, just give it a try.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Walters</title>
		<link>http://www.cyment.com/blog/2009/09/the-agile-value-stream-mapping-oxymoron/comment-page-1/#comment-90</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Walters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Oct 2010 09:09:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cyment.com/blog/?p=46#comment-90</guid>
		<description>Maybe (speculating) Karl&#039;s point is more about the (seemingly) lesser amount of articles which cover the flows prior to the backlog population for Agile or Lean projects.

For instance there are many great articles and tips on crafting user stories which are usable by the team at large but they seem to be spread across the internet and in my experience harder to locate than information on Scrum, Scrumban and Kanban practices which go from &#039;backlog&#039; to &#039;done&#039;.

I think if you are looking for resources covering this part of the process then you will invariably find VSM. Are there other resources or alternatives to be suggested?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe (speculating) Karl&#8217;s point is more about the (seemingly) lesser amount of articles which cover the flows prior to the backlog population for Agile or Lean projects.</p>
<p>For instance there are many great articles and tips on crafting user stories which are usable by the team at large but they seem to be spread across the internet and in my experience harder to locate than information on Scrum, Scrumban and Kanban practices which go from &#8216;backlog&#8217; to &#8216;done&#8217;.</p>
<p>I think if you are looking for resources covering this part of the process then you will invariably find VSM. Are there other resources or alternatives to be suggested?</p>
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		<title>By: Tobias Mayer</title>
		<link>http://www.cyment.com/blog/2009/09/the-agile-value-stream-mapping-oxymoron/comment-page-1/#comment-17</link>
		<dc:creator>Tobias Mayer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 06:45:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cyment.com/blog/?p=46#comment-17</guid>
		<description>@Karl -- but where does this idea come from that these things are not transparent?  Transparency is a foundational value of Scrum, and the task board is one tool --a particularly good tool-- for realizing that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Karl &#8212; but where does this idea come from that these things are not transparent?  Transparency is a foundational value of Scrum, and the task board is one tool &#8211;a particularly good tool&#8211; for realizing that.</p>
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		<title>By: Karl Scotland</title>
		<link>http://www.cyment.com/blog/2009/09/the-agile-value-stream-mapping-oxymoron/comment-page-1/#comment-15</link>
		<dc:creator>Karl Scotland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 13:26:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cyment.com/blog/?p=46#comment-15</guid>
		<description>@Tobias Because I&#039;m following you :)

Re: Backlog. My understanding of Scrum is that the input to Sprint Planning is a set of well defined/understood Product Backlog Items. If so, how do those PBI get defined/understood. I agree its ongoing, but its still something that needs to happen and thus its useful for it to be transparent.

Re: Releasing. Who mentioned big bang releases? I prefer to release per feature. Not every Scrum team can, or has to, release as part of the Sprint. When they can&#039;t, or don&#039;t, then its useful to have that work transparent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Tobias Because I&#8217;m following you <img src='http://www.cyment.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Re: Backlog. My understanding of Scrum is that the input to Sprint Planning is a set of well defined/understood Product Backlog Items. If so, how do those PBI get defined/understood. I agree its ongoing, but its still something that needs to happen and thus its useful for it to be transparent.</p>
<p>Re: Releasing. Who mentioned big bang releases? I prefer to release per feature. Not every Scrum team can, or has to, release as part of the Sprint. When they can&#8217;t, or don&#8217;t, then its useful to have that work transparent.</p>
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		<title>By: Tobias Mayer</title>
		<link>http://www.cyment.com/blog/2009/09/the-agile-value-stream-mapping-oxymoron/comment-page-1/#comment-14</link>
		<dc:creator>Tobias Mayer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 12:27:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cyment.com/blog/?p=46#comment-14</guid>
		<description>@Karl I find you everywhere :-)

&gt; How is the backlog created?
a backlog isn&#039;t &#039;created&#039;, that&#039;s the point -- it is creatING, it is an ongoing process also based on empirical feedback.  A backlog is a living list and is never finished until we kill (or more kindly, retire) the product.

&gt; How does the product get released?
Again, maybe this is just the wrong question. Theoretically, &quot;done&quot; software can be released at any time, so planning big-bang releases may not be necessary, and the release is simply part of the work we do to get to &quot;done&quot;.

By continuing to think in manufacturing metaphors we will continue to bind our thinking to manufacturing practices.  Think differently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Karl I find you everywhere <img src='http://www.cyment.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>&gt; How is the backlog created?<br />
a backlog isn&#8217;t &#8216;created&#8217;, that&#8217;s the point &#8212; it is creatING, it is an ongoing process also based on empirical feedback.  A backlog is a living list and is never finished until we kill (or more kindly, retire) the product.</p>
<p>&gt; How does the product get released?<br />
Again, maybe this is just the wrong question. Theoretically, &#8220;done&#8221; software can be released at any time, so planning big-bang releases may not be necessary, and the release is simply part of the work we do to get to &#8220;done&#8221;.</p>
<p>By continuing to think in manufacturing metaphors we will continue to bind our thinking to manufacturing practices.  Think differently.</p>
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		<title>By: Ged Byrne</title>
		<link>http://www.cyment.com/blog/2009/09/the-agile-value-stream-mapping-oxymoron/comment-page-1/#comment-13</link>
		<dc:creator>Ged Byrne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 11:27:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cyment.com/blog/?p=46#comment-13</guid>
		<description>&quot;But it is simply nonsense to ask a Scrum team to describe the process they
follow every time they develop software. The whole point of this thing
game we play is that we will adapt our process on the go.&quot;

I think you&#039;re trying to map the wrong things.  You&#039;re thinking about your development team as the factory, and that isn&#039;t right.

When you&#039;re writing code you are building a factory, and that is what you should be mapping.

When somebody uses your code, they use it for a reason.  They are looking to obtain some value.  That is the value stream you want to map.

What goal does the user want to achieve?  What actions must they perform to achieve that goal?  Of those actions, what adds value and what is waste.

UI people have been doing this for ages, with the Gulf of Execution and the Gulf of evalution.  http://www.interaction-design.org/encyclopedia/gulf_of_evaluation_and_gulf_of_execution.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But it is simply nonsense to ask a Scrum team to describe the process they<br />
follow every time they develop software. The whole point of this thing<br />
game we play is that we will adapt our process on the go.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think you&#8217;re trying to map the wrong things.  You&#8217;re thinking about your development team as the factory, and that isn&#8217;t right.</p>
<p>When you&#8217;re writing code you are building a factory, and that is what you should be mapping.</p>
<p>When somebody uses your code, they use it for a reason.  They are looking to obtain some value.  That is the value stream you want to map.</p>
<p>What goal does the user want to achieve?  What actions must they perform to achieve that goal?  Of those actions, what adds value and what is waste.</p>
<p>UI people have been doing this for ages, with the Gulf of Execution and the Gulf of evalution.  <a href="http://www.interaction-design.org/encyclopedia/gulf_of_evaluation_and_gulf_of_execution.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.interaction-design.org/encyclopedia/gulf_of_evaluation_and_gulf_of_execution.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Karl Scotland</title>
		<link>http://www.cyment.com/blog/2009/09/the-agile-value-stream-mapping-oxymoron/comment-page-1/#comment-12</link>
		<dc:creator>Karl Scotland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 10:33:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cyment.com/blog/?p=46#comment-12</guid>
		<description>Hi

What if you&#039;re not doing Scrum?

And if you are doing Scrum,
* What happens before the Sprint? How is the backlog created?
* What happens after the Sprint? How does the product get released?

Value Stream Mapping may help answer these questions.

Karl</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi</p>
<p>What if you&#8217;re not doing Scrum?</p>
<p>And if you are doing Scrum,<br />
* What happens before the Sprint? How is the backlog created?<br />
* What happens after the Sprint? How does the product get released?</p>
<p>Value Stream Mapping may help answer these questions.</p>
<p>Karl</p>
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		<title>By: Michael James</title>
		<link>http://www.cyment.com/blog/2009/09/the-agile-value-stream-mapping-oxymoron/comment-page-1/#comment-10</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 08:45:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cyment.com/blog/?p=46#comment-10</guid>
		<description>I think this stuff appeals to methodology junkies a little too much to trust it.  We&#039;ve been down the methodology path before.

I saw the Toyota Production System in action and thought it was very cool.  We can all learn something from the principles behind it.  But co-opting specific TPS *practices* and overloading the language might be taking it too far.

--mj (who could be wrong)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this stuff appeals to methodology junkies a little too much to trust it.  We&#8217;ve been down the methodology path before.</p>
<p>I saw the Toyota Production System in action and thought it was very cool.  We can all learn something from the principles behind it.  But co-opting specific TPS *practices* and overloading the language might be taking it too far.</p>
<p>&#8211;mj (who could be wrong)</p>
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